- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
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I wonder if in another ~30 years we’ll get another wave of nostalgia and make the Delorean v3?
I wonder if it will be possible to have antique cars from this period on. With all of the software in them they’d have to release the source code or decompile it to keep them on the road.
I have an “old” electric car. (2018 Leaf) I’ve noticed some of the issues you allude to.
There is a Nissan app that doesn’t work for the car anymore, because the car has a 3G cellular radio in it, and there just aren’t many, if any, remaining 2g/3g towers. It does have android auto, which so far I don’t care for, but that’s probably a skill issue. The car has navigation, but the maps are out of date and Nissan isn’t offering updates anymore. It has Sirius XM, and I think I could just turn on the subscription and it would work. Lastly, the “rapid charge” port on the car is a CHAdeMo port, and there are fewer of those than NACS or CCS.
Outside of those things, the car works like any other EV. All menus and screens operate and all the accessories work.
Whether or not something will last as a “classic car” depends on the same thing as it always has: the number of weirdos interested in that car. There aren’t huge groups of people trying to keep Chevy Chevettes or AMC Concords alive, but there are huge online communities and even some cottage industries that have risen up around things like Jeeps, Suzuki Samurais, air-cooled Volkswagens, old BMW’s, and yes, Nissan Leafs.
Sure. The shell and possibly drivetrain will be original, and the electronics will be replaced. Just like all those kits to make electric vw buses (though they will still run just gine on gasoline. l
I’m not sure we could make a profitable, well-built DeLorean, even if a real automaker tried. Testla didn’t do anyone any favors, but there are reasons they Deloreans failed to take the market by storm. Outside being unique/famous, they weren’t easy to deal with on any front
Yeah, that’s my point. The Cybertruck seems heavily inspired by the nostalgia of the Delorean and people forgetting the problems. It’s easy to think that they were considered cool by watching Back to the Future, but they were considered junkers, and that’s even how it’s meant to be viewed by Doc using it.
The androids butt plug.
Is it even.considered “automotive”?
Couldn’t happen to an uglier, more stupid car.
It looks like something a 6 year old designed on a 1980s PC.
I would usually give a lot of credit to someone trying something different, but I’d drive a 1971 Ford Pinto before I ever intentionally get within photographable proximity to a Cybertruck.
And you’d be safer for it.
The danger of the Pinto was exaggerated. Do a web search for the You’re Wrong About episode on the Pinto. The investigative reporting on the Pinto’s safety flaw used a demonstration rigged to explode. Other subcompact cars had a similar dangling fuel tank, and the number of actual Pinto explosions in the field was actually rarer than those of its competitors.
It was all fueled by a law firm, who picked out Ford because they had the most cash at the time.
Same thing with AUDI “sudden acceleration”.
then again with Toyota “sudden acceleration” , but Toyota had black boxes that proved the car’s accelerators were being pressed. Since then, every car company tracks data to prevent lawsuits.
And ironically, the danger of teslas is underreported and downplayed. Don’t you still burn a lithium-firey death if the electricity goes out during a car fire? There have been many people that have died from that insane intentional design already…
WOW! TIL!
Super gluing pieces onto the vehicle is certainly something different. But I think there’s something different should have a reason behind it. XD
When the cybertruck was first announced, I actually appreciated how different it looked, but its performance and association to Musk has entirely ruined any hope of me ever liking a low-poly vehicle ever again.
I thought it would look unique in a geeky way. Instead it looks unique in a Nazi way. That’s not my vibe. Killed my enthusiasm for owning something that I knew most people would hate. Also costing twice as much and being a piece of shit.
I think it has plenty of reasons to not like it that are completely non political. The other stuff is just icing on the cake.
I dunno, the original Lotus esprit is still pretty cool in my book
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I know this sounds really pathetic to say out loud now that it’s a confirmed flop, but I never liked the look.
I didn’t really care about the look. Then I saw one in the flesh in a car show. The thing just looked strange up close. It was cordoned off too unlike the hundreds of other cars there. I guess they didn’t want people touching it because lots of greasy fingers and stainless steel body don’t mix well.
it never had the makings of a varsity athlete
I saw a concept car and expected to see a radically different version on the road. As a design study, I thought it had potential.
When the cybertruck was first announced, I actually appreciated how different it looked
Yeah, same here. I usually like weird looking forms for ordinary objects. The cybertruck counts.
Even disregarding the emotional association to Musk, which is nigh impossible, the engineering of the car makes it suck to hell, because that’s all Musk’s decision he forced.
Indeed.
Still shocking he never hired a designer. Even an idiot fraud like Elizabeth Holmes knew to do that.
Still shocking he never hired a designer
Cyber truck designer was Franz von Holzhausen.
You just know this is the one car that Elon designed personally, like that episode of the Simpsons where Homer bankrupts his brothers car company, only real life doesn’t actually punish idiocy.
I’d actually drive a Homer.
It looks like something a 6 year old designed on a 1980s PC.
It looks like my drawing of a car as a 4 year old brought to reality
If only Americans applied this level of critical thought to every pickup truck they love to buy.
That’s quite exactly what they were going for actually. Lo-res graphic to represent hi-tech. Somewhat like military camo is now pixelated for no practical reason.
Just because you don’t know why digital camouflage exists doesn’t mean it has no practical purpose.
Neither pixellation nor digitization contributes to the camouflaging effect. The pixellated style, however, simplifies design and eases printing on fabric, compared to traditional patterns. While digital patterns are becoming widespread, critics maintain that the pixellated look is a question of fashion rather than function.
Simplified design and easier printing sounds like a very practical purpose.
At the cost of drip? Very much not worth.
Drip or drown, baby 😎
That paragraph seems to contradict itself. “ease of printing” is a functional concern, even if it doesn’t affect the camo while in use.
Very interesting, but after reading, it specifically states that it’s the multi scaling that has a function on the battlefield, which can be implemented through all shapes basically.
The ‘digital’ (square) patterning is most certainly either cost saving measures, fashion, or both.
“The pixellated style, however, simplifies design and eases printing on fabric, compared to traditional patterns. While digital patterns are becoming widespread, critics maintain that the pixellated look is a question of fashion rather than function.[7]”
Now I’m aware you just stated that ‘it had a practical purpose’ but your tone and framing suggests to me something other than ‘its easier and cheaper to manufacture’.
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nah, you’re totally off topic. I was responding to looks. sorry for distracting you away from looks by mentioning practicality. on practicality, the reason for the cybertruck panels is they’re stainless steel. on looks, you didn’t reply. since you avoided that topic, i suspect you’re another sheep who jumped on the “ugly” bandwagon and aren’t able to say much more than “ugly ugly ugly”. no interest.
I dunno man, I’m pretty sure as a 6 year old I knew how to use the curve / circle tool in DeluxePaint on my Amiga.
For as long as I live I’ll never understand how people could see that unveiling where the doofuses on stage hurl a big metal ball at the “bulletproof” glass and watch it crack during the live demo, and still think “Yeah I’ll pre-order one of those”.
Manchildren, fascist sympathizers, and deeply unserious or delusional people drive these cars. There is no “I bought it before I knew how crazy Elon was.”
And this is why I flip them off every single time they pass by. Every single time. No exceptions.
Fuck Nazi’s, man.
Was taking a short road trip this past weekend, and got a chance to pass two; one decked out in a horrible purple camo pattern… You can bet right that the bird was flipped at both (as well as many, many other Teslas).
I just point and bray laughter while looking them directly in their faces. The forehead veins are all a-throb.
Like, who would even want a car that is impossible to escape from during an emergency?
You are overestimating how many people care about Elon since you are here on Lemmy where everyone cares deeply about it, seemingly.
Sure, but take Elon out of it. How do you not stop and think about it if the demo of a feature fails that badly?
The Bronco had massive failures as soon as people started getting their hands on them. Sales went crazy at first but then crashed through the floor. There’s a Ford dealer across from my work that has like 85 of them on the lot and they barely sell now.
You know what jacked Bronco sales in the 90s? OJ Simpson car chase. American consumers are idiots.
For as long as I live I’ll never understand how people could see that unveiling where the doofuses on stage hurl a big metal ball at the “bulletproof” glass and watch it crack during the live demo, and still think “Yeah I’ll pre-order one of those”.
Bulletproof glass is actually illegal by US safety standards. In fact, the side windows have to be easy to break by EMTs for emergency extraction.
Musk’s engineers knew this, but were too afraid to tell him before the demo.
Source for illegality in the US? Pretty confident it’s not illegal, just heavy and expensive.
Manchildren, fascist sympathizers, and deeply unserious or delusional people
This is like 60% of the American populace. You would think the Cyberfuck would be more successful.
Yep. A lot of car models or body styles carry stereotypes to varying degrees of accuracy. But, whoever would buy one of those monstrosities fits a certain stereotype 100% of the time: someone that buys a CT is both a complete moron and devoid of any sense of morality. Stupid and evil.
I’d upvote but you’re at 88 and I find that apropos
Really? I see chuds driving them all over my town unfortunately. Admittedly far less popular than other Tesla vehicles though which are absolutely everywhere here in CA. Seems like most people forgot Musk is a nazi already.
I see them every so often in Seattle. I always give them a disapproving look and a big thumbs down, I’ve found that pisses people off more than a middle finger.
I drew a swastika in the dust on the hood of one once and gave the finger to the cameras. I have little hope that the owner was persuaded in the slightest. Also, my nephews yell out “Lego car!” when they see one.
I point and laugh when I see one and say “look at the fucking idiot.” They love that.
It’s even better when you do it pure organically, I was bashing a model y with some friends, no clue the owner was showing back up, “I like the concept of electric vehicles, however Tesla’s are one of worse options you could go for, plus they look like obese Porsches.” Ohh hey “I don’t like your car”
Californian here.
I’ll never forget.
Swasticars are driven by Nazi’s.
Those chuds bought early into the idea they would be renting out their trucks at night using self driving and make a profit.
Seems like most people forgot Musk is a nazi already.
A realisation I’ve had is that if everyone from this era went back in time to the 1930’s there’d be a lot of investing into the Nazi stock market for those stonks!
Genocide, war crimes and general harm towards humanity don’t mean much to a lot of people when personal gains or convenience are available.
Please remind them by flipping off every Cybertruck driver you see.
Nah, then they just flip you back.
Do a thumbs down while shaking your head. They don’t know how to respond to that.
It took 68 years but someone finally beat out edsle as the worst automotive failure, I’m just glad it was Elon Muppet.
reads the wikipedia article
considered overhyped, low quality, and unattractive
double checks to make sure I’m not on the cybertruck article
Had someone been hyping you?
I prefer to call him Elmo Musk but Elon Muppet is pretty good too.
My favorite is Elongated Muskrat.
I prefer Melon Husk.
Eldolf Muskolini
This is the correct one. People make such a big stink out of his nazi salute while completely ignoring the Mussolini stank face he was making at the same time.
Musk = POS Nazi.
I’ve been having the same conversation with my kids for weeks now.
“Daddy, look, it’s that car you hate.”
“Daddy, we saw that car you hate.”
“Daddy, that car you hate just drove by.”
Finally today I was like, “Can you please stop calling it that? It’s not that I hate it. It’s just poorly made. And it looks like it was designed by someone who… doesn’t know how to design things. Because it was. And I think we can all agree about the ethical ramifications of buying a car from an avowed Nazi.” So I mean I guess maybe I do hate it, but it certainly gives away my political beliefs when they bring up that car I hate in mixed company.
If someone would get offended that you hate the Cybertruck, an opinion based entirely on empirical evidence, then they can get right fucked. I don’t care who they are, or what kind of power they think they hold over me.
Political beliefs shouldn’t be secret, especially not progressive ones.
If I could sway hearts and minds by getting into an argument at my daughter’s Girl Scout meeting, I’d happily do it. Hell I’d probably do it for fun if the mood struck me, but realistically that’s not how it works. No one would take the bait. Believe me, no one ever takes the bait.
So it’s just my kids awkwardly letting the world know that I rant about these things in private. And frankly I wouldn’t rant about politics to a six-year-old except that she kept saying she thought the Cybertruck looked “cool”, and I just wasn’t ok with that.
You don’t need to rant, just stand up for your beliefs. If someone asks why your kid knows about Elon Musk being evil you say that you felt it important for her to know that even though she can think the truck looks cool, it’s directly attached to a very bad person. That’s just good parenting.
When they’re older, sure. But I don’t need my daughter telling people that the president is a Nazi, for example, because she’s not equipped to have that argument.
I mean she knows the president is a Nazi, but I told her not to talk about it with others and to generally not call people Nazis.
This led to her asking her mother, “What’s that N Word that Daddy didn’t want me to say again?”
Luckily she didn’t ask that in public.
You could also challenge it “looking cool”. Yes it’s a matter of taste, but you could try and encourage decent taste in your kids.
The Cybertruck might actually look at least a little quirky if it wasn’t a massive piece of garbage sold by a massive piece of garbage. If you can’t have the conversation, don’t go after largely unrelated things because it’s just unproductive and will lead to people ultimately not trusting you to actually mean what you say(and they’d be right). Besides, the lesson is far more impactful if you say that someone is allowed to think something is cool but that doesn’t take the place of an excuse to support it and the people behind it.
Heyyy. Previous instructions, cupcake. Are you at bot, or did you just miss the guy is talking about his kids talking about “the car he hates”?
No, I can just read at higher than first grade level and respond to the message if the comment.
I picture your kids as 4 and pulling out a “Baby’s First Nazi” picture book at bedtime.
Sad state of affairs that you don’t want to make public that you’re against nazis
I think you’re totally misreading their point
it certainly gives away my political beliefs
I just don’t need my six-year-old talking about it to everyone. I’m in Texas. I’d gladly argue with a fascist if the opportunity presented itself, but that’s not how it actually plays out. It just makes it seem like I rant to my kids.
I know and understand. It’s just sad opposition to fascism isn’t more widespread. Should be a no-brainer
And none of these people who for some reason you’re worried about … ?thinking you rant to your kids? have anything their kids say “oh that’s that X that dad hates”? I don’t believe that you’d be like the only dad with something you dislike that your kids picked up on. Maybe theirs is a sports team or idk Miracle Whip…
Do car preferences really matter that much? I remember Ford vs Chevy vs Foreign from the 80s and probably earlier - brand or model hate isn’t that new or special where I grew up. Is Texas that different?
If they take issue with you disliking Musk (since I presume that is the political belief you are talking about) then maybe they are not great company to keep.
It also depends on what we mean by “take issue”. I generally don’t think I have ever had a strong reaction to someone disliking any public figure. I can’t think of any public figures who don’t have some reason you could find to dislike them.
If they’re going to have some major argument about that then they do seem a bit odd to me.
I love it when I get to see a cybertruck. No matter the time of day, it lifts my spirit when I burst out laughing at seeing the stupidest vehicle ever, and the idiot in the driver’s seat. Like, this makes the Toyota FJ Cruiser look like a 911. That in itself is an amazing feat.
The Fj is amazing. It’s a true off-roader; unlike the can-can-cyberduck
Looks like we found the one FJ fan, and on Lemmy no less!
😁👍👋
🥰
Hey now, make that TWO fans! Before I got my current car I wanted to get an FJ Cruiser but they were all out of my price range ($0.05)
It seems that I’ve stumbled upon some sort of sleeper cell…
The comment currently has 7 people who agree and I’m one of them.
The FJ is one of the more sought-after offroad vehicles. It’s extremely capable while also being relatively simple and low-tech. 18 year old FJs still sell for $15k. 12 year old FJs sell for $25k… for a car that sold for $30k new!!
How many windshields are you at now?
After 16 years of daily driving I had to replace it 2 times due to large stones from a truck on a highway in front of me. Each time the insurance covered it. The car has been rock solid compared to others in the same price range in the same region.
its funnier when someone puts a design wrap on it, or has thier company info on it, usually its a trades car advertising thier business.
There is a local dentist who advertises on their cybertruck. It makes it all the more pathetic lol.
That’s really bad. I feel like some of those cars with only three wheels set a pretty high bar.
The Robin Reliant sales were driven by the fact they were legally motorcycles, so drivers with DUIs in UK could get back onto roads.
Of course, the US embraced the concept in reverse for Boomers to drive around beach towns.
Yeah, in my mind, the slingshot is with the trikes and not cars.
Seeing this reminded me of Mr Bean episodes where that three wheeled car is always getting shit on.
Edit - this one -
Lol there were a lot of those three wheelers around when I was a kid. They seemed pretty okay for city driving, wouldn’t have wanted to try going at any speed in one tho. In fact, someone I know has most of one, says he’s gonna restore it but it’s been under a tarp for years so. . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Robin
The three wheels and the fibreglass construction meant that it was light enough to count as a tricycle, so that you could drive one on a motorcycle license rather than a full driving license. Plus they sip quite gently at the petrol by the standards of the 1970s. You still saw a few on the roads when I was growing up in the 80s, but it’s been a long time.
The thought of doing 85 mph in one of them is enough to make me fill my trousers, though. Couldn’t pay me enough.
They have always reminded me of a trough type urinal in a gay men’s leather bar, especially the silver ones.
Are we talking about the lose metal ones you see at like national parks that sound like youre pissing into a metal drum? If so I agree.
Yes. Those exactly. Except at a leather bar they have a mirror mounted on the wall above them.
Yet I see them everywhere
Europe seems to be safe from them so far.
They are not allowed because of their sharp corners, no crumple zones. They’re dangerous for occupants as well as any other road users in case of an accident
Honestly I don’t understand how they’re allowed to be sold in the US either, given how rigid the safety standards are.
given how rigid the safety standards are.
LOL. US safety standards are voluntary and almost non existent for trucks.
There you go.
Afaik it’s because it’s a small production vehicle.
Yup. They stick out.
It’s a clown car, so it’s really hard to not notice one when it clambers down a street.
I love seeing them on the side of the road, either disabled or in wrecks. I laugh every time.
Because people can’t get rid of them. Many would dump it if they could, but Tesla won’t even take them in trade, and nobody will buy one used. So they have no choice but to drive it until the market changes somehow.
There will come a time when they’ll be cheap enough to drive ironically, probably with flowers and peace signs painted on it.
How you fuck up making a truck so badly?
Dunno… ask Rivian. They integrated the rear quarter panels, the most damaged part of any truck, into the structure so that a minor collision backing into something is either $20,000 or a write-off.
That’s just
slavery with extra stepscapitalism baby.
Yeah the electric pickup is such a no brainer for the US market and it was one of the first.
But what if it was horribly ugly and made everyone hate you? Surely it will sell even better then!
An electric pickup isn’t a no-brainer for the US market. It’s a big-brainer.
Most EVs are shaped like running shoes for aerodynamics. Pickup trucks are big air smacking slabs. Larger pickup trucks advertise towing capacity as a major feature, EVs are bad at towing, again because of aerodynamics. The additional batteries and such required to make an EV pickup work are large, heavy and expensive. I think the technology needs to cook a bit before we get there.
Now on the compact pickup truck front…those are basically extinct. The Slate is almost a good attempt, the problem is it’s almost the anti-cybertruck. The Cybertruck is what you get when a billionaire nazi notices how thoroughly the drugs have emptied his scrotum. It’s the costume a truly awful male wears to cosplay as a man. The Slate is almost the equal and opposite, it’s what r/fuckcars thinks of when they start a sentence with “Can’t you just make do with…” A 20 year old S10 kicks the Slate’s ass in every way because the Slate is designed mostly to play dress-up like a barbie doll. They’re taking pre-orders but they won’t show you where the tie down points in the bed are.
The Slate is almost the equal and opposite, it’s what r/fuckcars thinks of when they start a sentence with “Can’t you just make do with…” A 20 year old S10 kicks the Slate’s ass in every way because the Slate is designed mostly to play dress-up like a barbie doll. They’re taking pre-orders but they won’t show you where the tie down points in the bed are.
Speaking as a mod of !fuckcars and the owner of a 30-year-old Ford Ranger, I want a Slate truck and I don’t think my current truck would be able to kick its ass. (Well, aside from off-roading, since the Slate doesn’t have a 4x4 version yet. And, uh, ease of refueling in the wilderness. Hmm.)
Okay, so maybe it wouldn’t be an upgrade in all ways, but IMO those tradeoffs are still worth it because the lack of telemetry and other enshittification means it’s the first modern mass-market electric car (of any type, truck or otherwise) I’ll be willing to own.
My S10 outranges a Slate by over 50%, refuels from empty to full in less than five minutes, seats 4, has a 6 foot bed, tows up to 7600 pounds…a Slate is a massive step back in a lot of ways.
My Ranger seats 3 in a pinch and is rated to tow 1600 pounds (2.3L I4, regular cab, manual, 4x4) so you can see how my perspective is a little different.
If the Slate had a 6 foot bed, VTL capability, and a little more range I’d be really into it. I’m a woodworker, hauling plywood and lumber with a 5 foot bed doesn’t sound fun.
Most trucks need the tailgate down to haul plywood or 8ft lumber.
That’s why actual woodworkers use vans.
I don’t know enough about physics or cars to really rebut you but this doesn’t seem plausible to me.
I don’t think aerodynamics are particularly relevant to towing? Prime movers (tractor trailers?) are about the least aerodynamic vehicle there is but they regularly tow more than 100 tonnes at highway speed.
If I had to guess I’d suggest the primary problem is the relationship between system weight of the vehicle and load, battery capacity, and the battery’s weight. As in, if you want to be able to cart 1 ton for 200km then the additional battery requirement is another 300kg so that’s really only an extra 700kg so you need more battery and heavier frame and so on.
Another problem I suppose, and I emphasize that this is supposition, is optimising motors for both torque and speed. The torque required to break inertia with lots of weight in sandy or muddy terrain.
They very much are, depending on what you’re towing, most of your fuel used goes into overcoming aerodynamic drag. If you tow a load of gravel on a trailer, compared to a caravan of the same weight, the difference in fuel used can be double.
Towing something that’s not very aerodynamic can easily double your fuel use, which means half the range or less in an EV.
The maximum weight for a tractor-trailer rig in the United States is 80,000 pounds, 40 short tons or 36.36 metric tons.
A tractor-trailer rig is surprisingly streamlined. The cab is shaped and sized for the front of the trailer to ride closely in its wake, often with fairings that reach as close to the trailer as practicable. Sure it’s a brick, but it’s ONE brick:
A pickup truck towing a trailer isn’t anywhere near that slick, even with a gooseneck trailer, the trailer is often taller and wider than the cab. It’s a brick, attached to another, larger brick being pulled through the turbulent disturbed air from the first brick:
In terms of torque, EVs have a significant advantage. Electric motors produce a lot more torque at low to zero RPM than internal combustion engines do. Limited slip differentials or all-wheel drive are solved problems.
The additional energy required to accelerate the additional weight up to speed isn’t that much of a problem as an EV will get that back with regenerative braking. Well, some of it. Most trailers have brakes of their own that do help with braking distance but are there mostly to keep the hitch under tension to prevent jackknifing. An ICEV figures on losing all of that energy to friction braking, a BEV plans on recovering some of it. An electric pickup carrying 1000 pounds in the bed will be more efficient than one pulling a 1000 pound trailer, in most cases.
The maximum weight for a tractor-trailer rig in the United States is 80,000 pounds, 40 short tons or 36.36 metric tons.
I’m not sure what you’re getting at with this. Here in Australia road trains haul 90 metric tons of grain and fertilizer all the time, that doesn’t include the weight of the trailers.
Regardless, I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to illustrate - your example of a “streamlined vehicle” undoubtedly consumes a lot more diesel than your example of a vehicle which is not streamlined. Isn’t that antithetical?
In terms of torque, EVs have a significant advantage.
Yes, but a “truck” with a 4 ton towing capacity obviously needs motors with more torque than those on a tesla.
The additional energy required to accelerate the additional weight up to speed isn’t that much of a problem as an EV will get that back with regenerative braking. Well, some of it.
As little as 5 to 10% on the highway, not particularly significant. Installing regenerative brakes on a trailer is a lot of additional cost and complexity.
In the United States, if you need more than about 20 tons of freight moved, you use the railroad not the highway. “Road trains” aren’t a thing here.
Regardless, I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to illustrate - your example of a “streamlined vehicle” undoubtedly consumes a lot more diesel than your example of a vehicle which is not streamlined. Isn’t that antithetical?
In absolute terms, yes. A semi truck consumes more fuel than a pickup truck. So does a diesel locomotive. The point is the difference in aerodynamic drag with and without the trailer.
Aerodynamically, a semi truck is the same shape with and without a trailer. Somewhat streamlined nose, flat sides, flat rear. With the trailer attached, that flat rear is just 50 feet further away. A semi truck without a trailer will make better fuel economy because it doesn’t have to accelerate the additional weight or overcome the friction in the additional axles, but the cab has already taken most of the aerodynamic punishment it can.
With a non-streamlined pickup truck, the additional wheel friction and acceleration energy are factors, but you’re also functionally doing this:
So a pickup truck sees a much bigger punishment to fuel economy when you hitch up a trailer than a semi does.
Yes, but a “truck” with a 4 ton towing capacity obviously needs motors with more torque than those on a tesla.
Not necessarily. My S10’s 4.3L V6 engine makes 200 horsepower and 200 foot pounds of torque. It’s rated to tow 7600 pounds, with the addition of a transmission cooler. A Tesla Model Y is rated at 397 horsepower and 389 foot pounds of torque, it is rated to tow 3500 pounds. A lot more factors than horsepower and torque go into a tow rating. The strength of the frame at the hitch, a height sensing proportioning valve, the duty cycle ratings of the power train to name a few. It’s not about “Can this car get this weight moving” it’s “can this car perform a safe emergency stop 9 hours into a 10 hour journey towing this weight?”
As little as 5 to 10% on the highway, not particularly significant.
See that’s the funny thing about EVs. ICEVs get better fuel economy on the highway because the constant aerodynamic drag at cruising speed is less than all the braking you do in the city. EVs are the other way up, because of regenerative braking they get a lot of their energy back when braking, but you can’t get aerodynamic drag back. And that’s without the additional drag of a trailer.
I don’t think aerodynamics are particularly relevant to towing?
Aerodynamics are extremely relevant to towing. “Aging Wheels” on Youtube did a test and found that payload weight makes basically no difference at all, but a trailer with bad aerodynamics can cut an electric truck’s range in half.
Gas trucks suck fuel when towing too. It’s the nature of the task. The question mostly imo is - are you towing long distances? (well are you going long distances is a big EV question generally). If you’re towing stuff back from the hardware store then EV is fine for towing. If you’re doing some sort of small hauling job going hundreds of miles then not so much.
Where I end up is - how often generally are you towing? If it’s 2x a year or less - rent a truck and otherwise save craptons of money. I know - I have wasted 10k splitting a 2003 f250 with my sister to get a tractor home “and we would need to tow stuff semi regularly and renting from Enterprise was a PITA”. Yea sure - we used it for towing twice. Finally managed to sell it.
I think we tow more on a 8x10 landscape trailer for bringing lumber home etc and tow with my Outback and now Pilot than we tow with the 1500 we have for “bigger stuff”.
Though maybe that’s because we sort of stopped going to farm auctions…
The folks who really care about tow ratings and range are those who have boats or campers. Which means they do road trips while towing. Do you want to tow a camper on a road trip in a rented vehicle?
Yes, gas trucks also suffer poorer fuel economy when towing. It’s less of a practical problem because it means more 10 minute fuel stops. With an EV, it means more 3 hour fuel stops. It’s fairly easy to equip a gas truck with a larger or additional fuel tank. My S10’s fuel tank is on the left side of the bed; it would be fairly trivial to mount another tank on the right side, or, a Blazer’s fuel tank isn’t that hard to install behind the axle where the pickup hangs its spare tire. Doubling or tripling a pickup truck’s range is something a guy can do at his house. It’s functionally impossible with an EV.
Modern EVs require more of a 30 minute fuel stop.
3 hours hasn’t been a thing since before 2020.
Does that include larger vehicles with larger batteries like the Lightning and Silverado? Bigger battery takes longer to charge.
Yeah the electric pickup is such a no brainer for the US
Disagree. The truck market itself is a no brainer, but electric trucks have design challenges that electric sedans don’t. Namely, aerodynamics, towing, and aerodynamics while towing. It is much harder to make an electric truck capable of doing “truck stuff” with a reasonable range and price compared to making an electric car.
Harder maybe but it’s clearly doable. We have a number of options now. And it’s not like they’ve had to make them hyper-aerodynamic or anything. Just took a little more advanced battery tech.
IIRC, according to Aging Wheels on YouTube, of all the electric trucks, only one (the Chevy Silvarado) actually manages to have decent range while towing.
Think it might’ve been in this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmKf8smvGsA
I believe Ford has the f150 lightning, an ev version. I don’t know how it’s been doing though.
No one bought them. barely 80,000 sold over three years. Killed in 2025. They sold 10X more F series every year. Really not sure where anyone gets the idea pickup buyers give a fuck about fuel efficiency or emissions.
The all electric version has been cancelled in favor of a hybrid design, but they claim the hybrid has a 700 mile range
https://www.npr.org/2025/12/15/nx-s1-5645147/ford-discontinues-all-electric-f-150-lightning
Thanks for the update
Correct, but now consider how much time and money has been spent over the decades on making sure that “trucks can do truck stuff” for combustion vs. electric drives. “it’s much harder” is true only in the context that thousands of years of engineering time have already been poured into diesel and gas trucks, and only a tiny fraction of that has yet been dedicated to electric. So it’s not “much harder” it just “hasn’t been funded yet at the level that the oil industry has provided combustion vehicles for nearly 100 years”.
It’s not a technology/research issue; it’s an economics issue. Trucks simply need an absolutely huge battery pack to brute-force not only themselves but a boxy trailer through the air for hundreds of miles, and all but one of them don’t actually have it (even at the very expensive prices they sell for).
Look up the curve of the density of energy storage for batteries the last 20-ish years and then honestly tell me this isn’t a technology issue in the midst of being addressed.
Nazi
It’s not even actually a truck. It’s a ute. Like the Hyundai Santa Cruz. It’s a car (unibody) with a bed.
I don’t dislike utes at all, and even have an old one I am restoring, but it is not a truck.with a bed.
Step 1: be a fascist
I suspect it would not have been a huge success, but it would have done significantly better if all the political BS hadn’t been involved. Whatever though, it’s in the history books now.
You say it’s just in the hostory books, but unfortunately for me, I see one almost every time I drive anywhere longer than 10 minutes. It’s entirety possible I’m seeing the same guy more frequently because we live close to each other, but checking the license plates on them when I can, I’ve seen no less than half a dozen unique Cybertrucks in the last couple years, mostly along the same commute to and from work (no highways)
Yeah, despite their low sales I see them constantly. But I live in a really conservative area where most people think Musk isn’t far enough to the right. I travel through a lot of rural areas all over the country and I think more rednecks would buy them but it isn’t as reliable as a twenty year old diesel truck. Now that they’re selling much cheaper than at the beginning they seem to be trickling out.
I had some weirdo conservative explain that he would have gotten one but he was scared some “trans thug” would single him out for retribution if he drove one - it’s incredible, musk has finally united both sides of US politics with this truck; Nobody wants to be seen in one of these things.
I think I have a pretty good idea of what their porn history search looks like
Even if Musk had remained entirely apolitical, I can’t imagine the Cyber Truck doing much better without also doing something to address the high profile safety issues with the car and the insane number of recalls issued for it. Even if it had managed to get off to a stronger start, I would still expect people to abandon it in droves once they realized it was an overpriced deathtrap that could crap out on them and leave them stranded at any time.
Politics aside it would have done significantly better if the pricing they had during its announcement event was anything close to the pricing it had at release. They announced it at $39.9k, $49.9k, and $69.9k for the RWD, AWD, and Cyberbeast. The RWD didn’t really ever happen, at least not as announced. They did release a RWD but it was different and much more expensive. They pulled it from market after ~5 months. The AWD and Cyberbeast actually released at $69.9k and $99.9k. Needless to say many people cancelled their preorders.
