Respect freedom of people who respect yours. Help each other. Fight together against those who try to take it away.
Yeah yeah, “if we don’t kill you then Russia will”. Heard that one too many times from the good guys as well :)
Yet nobody was able to show me how people were wiped out in the liberated territories (Crimea, Melitopol, etc.), how millions of us living in Russia were wiped out, etc.
Again, you don’t get to make a surprised pikachu face when you are literally telling people whom you are trying to kill that they are Russian bots.
How can anyone in good faith support Zelensky, the bloodthirsty tyrant who turned my country into the biggest prison in the world where people are kidnapped off the streets, beaten, forced into vans and then sent to die in a meatgronder?
That’s a rhetorical question of course, I’ve heard the answer[s] so many times already, basically some version of “it’s a war so anything Zelensky does is absolutely normal/justifiable and it’s OK if you, your family and basically everyone you know dies, no big deal. No human rights apply to you, now please go and die fighting for my geopolitical interests”.
But you cannot make a surprised pikachu face after that and be shocked that people actually support the evil-evil Russia, which liberates people from the regime you support.
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No, why would they? Haven’t you heard that Russia is literally Mordor filled with orcs, while Ukraine (especially under Zelensky’s rule) is a bastion of democracy? I don’t think that western governments/media and especially Zelensky (who doesn’t benefit at all from this war and is the main victim here) would lie to anyone about that!
Now that we got sarcasm out of the way…
If you want to form an informed opinion about it you can start by looking at the map of 2010 elections, where there was basically two candidates, a pro-EU one and pro-Russian one. Take a look at the distribution and percentage of people voting for a particular candidate in particular regions. Then look into the coup that happened in 2014, which powers participated in it (you can listen to their leaked conversations as well), then remember the electoral map you just looked at, and maybe make some conclusions.
That’s “before the invasion” the part.
“After the invasion” part is of course less clear, but again if you want to start making an informed opinion you can start by looking, for example, at the level of freedom people located on Ukraine controlled territories have and that of people on annexed by Russia territories (or just “Russia proper” territories). Who is free to leave at any moment and go anywhere, and who is forbidden to leave the country because the government needs cannon fodder? Who is encouraged to volunteer to join the army with monetary incentives, and who is kidnapped from the street, beaten, held in basements for days and forcefully sent to the meat grinder? Again, you can try to make some conclusions from that, and maybe speculate whether it’s possible that people from one of those groups may want to join the other one.
As a finishing touch - I am Ukrainian, I was born there, and lived most of my life there. Thankfully, I left the country before the war started. If I visit Ukraine - I will most likely be dead in a matter of months (after being kidnapped and beaten by the brave TCC guys). If I visit Russia - I will at most face more scrutiny at the border due to the war. I’m not from an eastern region of Ukraine and I never wanted it to become a part of Russia. You can try to guess which options are preferrable for me currently.
I guess it’s kinda obvious in my case :)
So Putin is better for Ukraine?
For Ukraine - I don’t know what “Putin for Ukraine” means… If Ukraine would be Putin’s then it probably wouldn’t be Ukraine but Russia (unless Putin would be a president of both countries or something…)? I don’t think it would be good or bad, Ukraine existing or not doesn’t change much IMHO, but I’m open to hearing your arguments here.
For Ukrainians - of course! The shit that Zelensky does to Ukrainians is exactly (and even worse than) what the west scares public Putin would do. Ukrainians on liberated territories(controlled by Putin) have way more freedoms than those on territories controlled by Zelensky’s regime, including one of the most basic freedoms - freedom of movement and not being kidnapped on a street and be sent to die…
Thank you.
You mean funding the arms that Ukraine is using to defend itself?
Yes, sending weapons and money to Zelensky’s regime, which lets him to continue staying in power and terorrize Ukrainians by forbidding people to leave the country and kidnapping them from the streets to send them to the meatgrinder.
What makes you think that ending Russia’s horrifying invasion is more likely under a trump-ruled USA?
Because dems have been funding this war since the beginning, and would certainly continue to do so? I think Harris explicitly said that she will continue the war (or something along those lines).
Trump said that he is going to finish it by forcing both sides to negotiate. (Yes yes I know, every politician’s main job is lying. But when one person says that they will definitely kill everybody I know continuing the job of their predecessor, and the second one at least promises that they will not, whatever credibility that promise has in your opinion - I’m choosing the second one)
No, I meant Ukraine as a country could surrender.
Well, it just so happens that I care more about people, actual living humans, their lives, and not countries.
I believe kidnapping citizens to fight is basically an express draft.
I believe kidnapping people and sending them to die is kidnapping people and sending them to die.
Not that this conversation matters. Neither of our opinions matter.
Well, that’s true I guess. Like most/all of the “battles” in comments. I just don’t think there is something more I can do to stop Zelensky terrorizing people, other than try to convince randos on the internet to stop supporting his regime :(
Trump will stop support
I sure hope so, this is the only (realistic) outcome where my family and friends and every other Ukrainian survive.
will becomes west Russia
I don’t think so, that’s just a scarecrow the west is using to continue the war.
I’m sure they will be kidnapped off the streets and drafted to go fight another war somewhere
I’m sure they didn’t treat Ukranians poorly
Well, now Russia definitely does treat us better though. Those who are in the liberated cities are the lucky ones who can freely move around.
Make them die?
Yes, exactly.
They can surrender themselves right?
How? Surrendering in modern warfare is super hard, you will either be droned by enemy because they mistake your surrendering for attacking, or by your side for surrendering.
As long as they want to fight I see no reason not to supply them with the means to usurp the oppressers.
Sure, supply those who want to fight. You do know though, that people in Ukraine are given no choice? Zelensky forbade people to leave the country (and he is way more successful at keeping the western border safe than eastern one (that is, from people wanting to escape this hell) - weak against strong ones, and strong against weak ones). Zelensky’s regime kidnaps people from the streets and sends them to the meatgrinder. If you care about “helping people fight against oppressive regimes” you should support those people, not the ones terrorizing them.
Perhaps if you’re some combination of white, or straight, or cisgender, or neurotypical, or rich, then this is good news. For anyone else its dire.
I am Ukrainian. I have no idea whether Slavic people are considered white or not, but I am quite sure I’d benefit from a literal war in my country ending.
I recall they said the same about Hilter. It was called appeasement. Don’t accept bullies demands. Period.
Then go sign up for foreign legion and go make sure Putin loses. Don’t make Ukrainians die instead of you for your wild fantasies.
I’m sure he will, by giving Ukraine to Russia
Wouldn’t happen, but even this is way better than giving it to Zelensky.
and letting them murder Zelensky.
No way. I mean that would be awesome of course, bringing justice to that murderer who killed hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians, terrorizing the rest for three years and not letting people escape. But that would never happen, USA almost certainly gave Zelensky some guarantees that he will be able to escape to USA after this war ends.
Ah yes, the usual undefeatable argument of libs/dems/whatever - if you don’t like us slaughtering people you know, then you are fascist, dumb and most importantly a Russian bot and fuck you. 🙃
Yeah, that’s a monkey paw wish. His “ending the war in Ukraine” almost certainly means giving Putin whatever he wants.
Even if you are right (I don’t think so), so what?
How is this worse then what is hapenning now (to Ukrainians)?
Inb4 probably some delusiomal fantasies about how Putin is gonna invade the whole world, etc. :/
The best news in the last three years! :)
I just hope that he will follow through with quickly finishing the war in Ukraine.
Well, as assholish as he is, at least that guy is honest.
If people started likewise admitting that they are genociding Ukrainians (because hey, it also hurts Russia, so it’s worth it) instead of “but we are helping Ukraine!” that would already be a huge progress…
I just… don’t understand… a rapist, felon, traitor, failed businessman, among a looooong list of other shitty traits… how the hell can someone wake up and go, “This guy needs to be President!”???
Well, I do wake up every day and hope that he becomes president. He is the only one who promises to stop the genocide and suffering of Ukrainians. Dunno how many US citizens care about it, but hopefully it’s a non-negligible amount :)
Thanks for telling me what I just said in my comment people already told me a million times, I guess? 🤷♂